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Re:Re:Re:Re 6: Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
I hit another glitch it seems in the posting of my last message. Ulysses, I find, is one of the greats, and highly popular for a book that is (as you say) hardly read. Even if I enjoy it, I find parts too tedious to read or incomprehensible. Finnegan's Wake should be avoided at all costs, it is very much for appreciating at a distance, or else digging and delving in words up to the elbows. There is no middle ground with Finnegan's Wake. Joyce of course was tied into the modernistic trends of his time in the area of literature. Similiar experimental, reflective veins can be seen in the likes of Pound and Eliot. The great thing about Ulysses is the extensive characterisation of plot, with the internal monologues whispering away. The universality of it all is a treat. What Joyce esentially does is mirrior the reality of one man's life thorugh a single day, refreacting it through a myriad of imitated and invented styles, confining it to a parochial setting, and yet despite these apparent obstacles he achieves in making an everyman character that is recognisable everywhere. I have few quoibles about Joyce as a self-promoter, he excelled at it, and perhaps in some small way that was even necessary. Bloom of course is the archtypal newsman and advertiser ! The content of the book, particularly the sexual explictity, for the time it was written in was very audacious. Self-publicity was perhaps necessary, I think, to fight the Ulysses onslaught. What he Ulysses is a massive thing, we could discuss it for hours and still return to opinions that differ madly, but sometimes when I think about it I find that I can have two or even three different feeligns about the same issue. The ability of the book to leave you entirely on uncertain ground, as to purpose, plot, conclusions, significane, readability and many other questions, is staggering. The achievement is in the book I feel, unquestionably a great, but not sure if I would bring it on a train journey. It's the type of thing you really need to be stationary to read.
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Language pair: English; All
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S M.
December 17, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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What about Dostoevsky?
I' a girl from Russia. I think Dostoevsky is a perfect writer.
Who thinks the same, let's discuss.
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Language pair: English; All
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Claire K.
December 14, 2004
# Msgs: 2
Latest: January 10, 2005
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Re:Re 6: Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
It seems my last post did not make it onto the board. Maybe a technical glitch. Apologies for late reply. I forget what I had said but as you can imagine it was full of wonderful elucidation. I think if I remember well that I had moved on to discussing Ulysses. Another long book. Have you read it ?
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S M.
December 7, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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Re:want to improve my English skill , please introduce me some English literatures
I'm not sure about your level of reading, but I personally enjoy novels by Tamora Pierce very much. She is an excellent fantasy author, and her books are very engrossing. I don't know if you would appreciate this type of fantasy, but J.K. Rowling has written several books for a series called Harry Potter. I hope my recommendations assist you. God bless.
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Language pair: English; Thai
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Amalia C.
December 3, 2004
# Msgs: 1
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Re:Re 5: Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
Yes, it's true, I've had a brush with literature. I hear Columbia is a good university over there ?? Have you made any decision where you want to go ? Maybe you will pursue this arguement a littler further in one of the academic departments which specialise in JRT ? I'd advise taking Old English, it's a little tedious but well worth the slog. I hear JRT's translations is due out sometime soon. I have to admit, my JRT experience is limited to a year I spent studying physics. Science students seem to know more about LotR and the H than any other bunch of students on campus, minus those in Eng. Lit. Returning to Old English, JRT was a well known Beowulf scholar. My old tutor was tutored by JRT in fact, on Beowulf. This was my second introduction to the world of LotR. There are many cadences in JRT's works with those of the Old English. Whatever you decide to do, I think you would make a fine English scholar. You have a knack for criticism. Peut etre, vous voulez suivre la lituratur Francais ? Can that be right ? My French is rusty. You can 'follow' French ? But you need to 'sit' English !! Most certainly better to relax and put your feet up, n'est pas ?
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S M.
November 29, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
Agreed. The inevitable limitation of any book is the fact that it is often a child of it's generation. That is sometimes the most interesting aspect of a book, especially for thiose literary historians among us, but books fall short too. In the case of JRT, it is true that he inhabited a cosy world of men, whether through the war or quietly in Oxford. I think he may not have been challanged at any great level over the years by questions of the role and position of women in society. It's unfortunate, but I think he can be forgiven. I would be unable with any real depth be able to compare the women in LotR with those that appear in the gospels, but it is an interesting one. The Smeagol character and the temptation/s are very much in the world of the gospels, if you think of the Garden of Gethsemane for example. Whilst no Jesus, I do not think JRT was reaching for any significant superlayering of the stories, but aimed more for allegorical significane. He has done it masterfully. The heavy anglo-saxon bent of the book inevitably raises questions also of race, culture and colonialism, all of which would require time to go into. Did you (are you)study (studting) literature ? You have a good critical nose for LotR !
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S M.
November 25, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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Re:Re:Re:Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
Agreed. Another interesting similarity with the Christian story must be the archtypal set of 'apostles', including the betrayal of Frodo by at least one along the way. Tolkein was, it is reported, partly responsible for bringing CS Lewis back into the fold. One can only believe his beliefs were a singular driving force in his life. He fought in the first war (including the particularly brutal Somme [in fact it was all rather brutal !!]) and two of his sons also fought in the 2nd WW, although he led a rather quite life in Oxford during the 1940s. He led quite an amazing life. It is funny to think that it was a pirated copy of LotR that was the key fact in making it a popular success. One wonders ! C'est incroyable, n'est pas ?
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S M.
November 23, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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Re:Discussion of Tolstoy and Tolkien books
I read in an article about Tolkein that the symbolism in LotR relates to Christianity, i.e. the ring denoting the idea of 'original sin', the travails of the hobbits on their way to Mount Doom to destroy the ring being reminicent of the path that Christ plodded during the crucifixion. JR was apparently an avid Christian, but his belief was hopeful, very much Catholic in doctrine, unlike Golding's Lord of the Flies, which again is purported to deal with the idea of 'original sin', but WG is basically of the view that man is unredeemable. I think I could concur with these readings.
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S M.
November 19, 2004
# Msgs: 7
Latest: December 28, 2004
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Re:Re:Re:the poetry - Desiderata
Hi Ketty
Thanks a lot for the Poetry. It is special! I love it very much
As soon I have the time I will write in Sanish to the BBoard and you will be able to copy it.
I write frecuently, no gold too.
Look at in Others some "Lessons" for Spanish Student" I dont know your level and accordind to it I can send messages to you.
By....Kisses for your Poetry
MaryJAponte
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Language pair: English; Spanish
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maryjaponte l.
October 4, 2004
# Msgs: 2
Latest: October 4, 2004
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Re:the poetry - Look for "DESIDERATA"
Hello lPoetry lover:
I am looking for one poetry , like a letter, founded at one church at Baltimore, United States, named "DESIDERATA" o something like that. This is one opinion of how you must see the life and is very realistic. If you can finf in, please write it for me. I have one of this, but in Spanish, my native tongue.
Going up quitely between the noise and the agiteted movement
and remember that you can find peace in the Silent
Untill where it is possible to you
try to be in order with your conciencius
give with hapiness the things of love,but not been //cinicus /CINICO
in love
Keep the interest in your own career. It is the only real possesion in the changes of fortune thru the times.
and remember you have the right to be hear
you are a criature from the universe
fight / LUCHAR / for been Happy
I would like if you can find the original english text. I am sure you will like it very much.
Regard Mary
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Language pair: English; Spanish
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maryjaponte l.
July 15, 2004
# Msgs: 2
Latest: October 4, 2004
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