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| 53223 |
What is your oppinion of "No Child Left Behind" ?
For anyone who knows what "No Child Left Behind" is about, what is your opinion? What is "No child left behind" exactly? I won't share my opinon until I learn more about it, so I am going to do some reasearch. My opinion is based on my concern for my teachers and there opinions that they expressed.
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Language pair: English; German
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| 53269 |
Re:What is your oppinion of
When you've had a chance to do some research, would you like to tell us what it is about? I've been hearing about it for years, and I have no idea what it is, except for odd references here and there. I have to admit that I have been judging it in ignorance. George Bush seems to have the Midas Touch in reverse: everything he touches turns to crap. The war on terrorism, his abuse of the Alaskan Wilderness, his outragous ideas for "saving" (read, "destroying") social security. As a teacher, I have been, quite frankly, terrified to examine it too closely. I have enough misery in my life the past five years. But I really should know.
Mark
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Language pair: English; All
This is a reply to message # 53223
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| 53333 |
Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
The government web site doesn’t really make it clear. It just pretty much keeps saying "no child will be trapped in a failing school" and it "emphasizes reading." I read it twice, and there is no "clear information" just repetition. Here is a clip, of what will happen to schools that "Fail":
"School districts and schools that fail to make adequate yearly progress (AYP) toward statewide proficiency goals will, over time, be subject to improvement, corrective action, and restructuring measures aimed at getting them back on course to meet State standards."
NCLB website
They don't even attempt to explain the consequences. I think the whole law is bs. There is no such thing as a "failing" school. The only way it can "fail" if the kids are unwilling to learn. The teachers, who give up their hour, their day, their year, when they probably have better stuff to do, are the ones who are blamed. In my opinion this is one of the stupidest laws or whatever it is, in the U.S. You can’t teach someone who doesn’t want to learn. If kids don’t want to learn, they won’t. I know, I am one! The teachers can’t help a student if he/she doesn’t want it. Some adults who choose to be teachers give almost their whole life to teaching and kids, why should we punish them? It’s not their fault. Many teachers will do everything they possibly can to help their students succeed!
I just can’t understand how Mr. Bush can not see that. Maybe he doesn’t remember his school days. I wish he could see the big picture and not just a fraction. He’s not helping anyone, just hurting them in the long run.
For more information on this subject go to a search engine and type in “ No Child left behind”
I truly think it should be called, “No Child gets ahead.”
This is only my opinion, don’t take it personally.
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53269
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| 53509 |
Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
I agree (I am suprised that you used BS). I remember not to long ago when they talked about paying a teacher based on the grades of the students. In my classes, kids like to sleep, goof off, cause trouble, and get kicked out. I am in specal ED for writing goals and in those classes, we get eather a P for passing or an F for failing.
As you can see, my spelling is horrible. In my English II class, I would get docked points for it and I have not had a spelling test since middle school (I am a year older than Dwyn). Teachers already don't make enough money and this would make it worse. The only way for teachers to make money is to cheat, and we would not learn anything. The no child left behind act is the same as paying a teacher based on grades.
Dwyn and I go to the fastest growing school district in one of the highest ranking states for education in the nation. From my understanding, this program would be used at our school. Where Bushy is from, I think that the state ranks the lowest. I know that I am preaching to the chior, but I know that I am smarter then him (considering the states we are from, Dwyn and Mark too) and I know that both Ideas are bad. If he was a teacher, he would not read the bill before rejecting it.
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53333
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| 53517 |
Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
SHORT SUMMARY OF NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND:
It's like and equal opertunity law, but different. It's too make sure every kid receives the same education as everyone else, and makes sure that they don't fall behind. Each child should have an equal opertunity to receive their education. They use yearly tests to chart progress or failure.
On the other hand to make progress you have to beat your old scores. Well what happens when you get as high as you go? Well, your scores have no where to go but down, so your on the list of failing schools. This law dosn't make sense in the long run because eventually every school will be on the failing list. It's a roller coaster ride though, because once you've hit the bottom there is no way to go but up! To me it dosn't make a lot of sence.
What is your opinion?
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53269
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| 53574 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
Travis, your awsome! Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! You rock! Thank you for your opinion! I knew you had one! :)
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53509
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| 53646 |
No Child Left, Pt 1 of 2
Hi Dwyn, Travis, everyone:
I think you've made a thoughtful analysis here, pointing out that the government doesn't seem to offer any meaningful solution. If you're familiar with the "carrot and stick" approach to management, where those responsible for some accomplishment are offered some reward for successful efforts (the carrot) and some punishment for failure to perform satisfactorily (a beating with a stick), it seems here that the government is trying to put together something like that, but forgot about the carrot part. I'm not terribly encouraged by what you've found.
I would like to question your conclusion that the government expects schools to somehow perpetually improve grades, and that when the entire student body is pulling down a 4.2 average, the schools are all going to have to find a way to produce students who are earning 4.3's. I'm not saying that this isn't a reasonable interpretation of the materials you've read, or even that it's unlikely that the government would have such an expectation (from an administration that thinks it can improve its success in Afghanistan by starting a new war in Iraq? By now, I'm ready to believe ANYTHING!) After all, our whole economic system is based on the assumption that markets, products, and services will consistently grow indefinitely. From Adam Smith to now, two hundred and thirty years later, nobody in the economics discipline has figured out that there is a problem with this model on a planet with a finite population and finite resources.
On the other hand, it's important to recognize the context within which education emerges as a critical social issue: The United States has gone from being one of the foremost educational systems in the world to being among the worst. Many would argue that we have been, for a couple of decades now, in the midst of an education crisis. A characteristic response to this from a conservative viewpoint (please correct me if I'm wrong, you conservatives out there), is to do what it takes to restore the educational successes we had before. Make the schools go back to the old paradigms that were working, and get us back on track that way. So the idea, then, is not to create an infinite path of educational growth, but to restore our educational system to a very specific standard that it used to meet, and no longer does.
That being the case, one valid reading of the facts we've seen here might be, "There's the bar, and we expect your students to clear it. If they don't we're going to step in and restructure your system, and if they do, we'll leave you alone and move on to the next school on our list.
See NoChildLeft Pt 2 of 2
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Language pair: English; All
This is a reply to message # 53517
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| 53647 |
No Child Left, Pt 2 of 2
NoChildLeft Pt 2 of 2
Of course, I don't know, I'm just conjecturing, challenging the report you've offered, bounding my thinking off of what you've said. If you read something (or even if you said something I missed) that makes it clear that my reading is wrong and yours is right, it woud be helpful for me to see that; I hope you'll let me know. Otherwise, maybe you'll consider my alternative reading and see what you think of that.
In any case, even if the government is smart enough to choose some reasonable standard of education and say, this is our goal, that's what we need to accomplish, it is still pretty self-evident that their solution of stepping in in a punitive (using punishment) way to deal with the problem is ignorant and ineffective. That's like beating a dog for peeing on the carpet without bothering to check if anyone bothered to put any newspaper down. You have to look at causes of a problem and take appropriate steps to address those causes. All the intervention in the world will do nothing if we haven't taken the time to figure out where the problem came from and what it will take to correct it.
Travis, you put your finger on a huge part of the problem. There's something really wrong with the way we pay people outrageous sums of money to do work they love and enjoy, and then teachers, who work hard, are underappreciated, and often face hostility and violence from students, are rarely paid enough money to put them above the poverty line. That's the priority our great nation has placed on education.
You want to know where the problem with our education lies? There's a great place to start looking. If our country doesn't value education enough to provide schools with the funds and resources they need to do their job effectively, How can we expect to achieve results any better than we have? I have yet to see a meaningful answer to that question from this presidential administration (I have yet to see a meaningful answer from them on anything, but anyway…)
I'm afraid I'm pretty unhappy with our president. I am soooo happy he can't run for another term after this.
Anyway, thanks for the great topic. Keep the faith!
Cheers,
Mark/ Sacramento
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Language pair: English; All
This is a reply to message # 53517
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| 53713 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
Something that just came up reciently in the school that Dwyn and I attend is that the school board plans to drop General Math 1. I am in Special ED for my writing (and reading a while ago). The english classes would go Basic English, English 1, English 2, English 3, English 4. Because of Special ED, I had to start with Basic English before I could move to English 1. By the time we graduate, Dwyn and I must each have 4 of those classes. English 4 is recomended for Collage, so I will be doing all five in the 4 years of High School. General Math 1 and 2 is the same as English 1. The class is mainly for the students who are in Special ED for math reason.
I know thru my experionce in both basic English and Pre-Algebra, the class after General Math 2, that the students NEED at least general math 1. Special ED is to give those student a way to caught up to everyone else and soon, they will have to dive head first into a two inch pool. I was only ready for Pre-Alg because I am a Math and Science geek. Normal and especialy the Special ED student have no way of making it out alive. And with that, There goes the No child left behind act.
The govener of our state is thinking about making school year-round. The idea is to give student more class time, as in china, a student has 1.5 years more education then Dwyn and I have now. Let me note, the summer are hot, winters are cold, and some schools have NO AC.
Goal: Raise students scores.
Result: Watch 'em fall!
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53574
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| 53873 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
Are they really trying to do all this?
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53713
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| 53953 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
Yes. I read that they are droping general math 1 in the local paper a few weeks ago, and the govener actualy had a program last tuesday night on PBS (yes, some people watch PBS) where he, the govenor of virgina and 4 others sat in a room with about 50 high schoolers and talked about the topic. The govenor is really pushing the idea of no summer vacation. Give it a few years and good by weekends and holidays. Speaking of, I think China has a 6 day school week. Can anyone confirm that?
Today is June 13, and I know some schools in the area still have school, and they are not year round!
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53873
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| 54055 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
If we were to have year round school I'd drop out. Don't get me wrong I love school and I think education is important. But my family comes first and they need me full time on weekends and in the summer! If I want them to be able to see their grandchildren some day, then I need every available day off, so I can work, so they don't have to work so hard. It kills me to see my parents some days, and I always feel guilty when they just let me be a kid and have fun, because I know how much they need help. I would miss school, but I'd miss my parents even more.
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53953
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| 54177 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
Don't worry I watch PBS too!
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53953
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| 55520 |
Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:What is your oppinion of
They also dropped art 2! In my opinion art is just as important as math and science. Maybe its because we went through 5 teachers in 2 years? and anyway where is all the 1% sales tax going if not to the school?
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Language pair: English; German
This is a reply to message # 53953
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